I don’t really know either. But I do encounter a huge variety of ideas and personal essays here that make me think or relate in ways to strangers (like you are to me!) than I would in my local coffee shop. And I’m grateful for that. I only regret that I’ll never meet most of the people in person whom I read on here. But maybe that’s ok. It’s a different level of community for sure.
That is such a good point about the way Substack exposes us to so many perspectives. I do also believe that the people in my local coffee shop have stories and experiences and thoughts that are just as interesting as what I read on Substack, but without the time or inclination or ability to express them here. I know because every now and then, we strike up a conversation with a stranger and discover a whole world. But that's a hard thing for most of us to do, to put ourselves out there and talk to strangers, even though I think I read a study that it increases our happiness.
I experience Substack as community, but not the whole platform. Like many IRL communities, the one I perceive myself to be a part of on Substack is a carefully curated (but not exclusive) group of writers and readers who seem to organically end up gathering repeatedly in the comments for a post we've all read. I do not see Substack writ large as a community; rather, it is like an online city, where lots of people live, but who interacts with who, on a regular basis, such that they actually get to know and care about each other, is a mesh of sometimes interconnected, sometimes isolated, subgroups.
As a multiply disabled person, this kind of online community is critical to my well-being. I have great difficulty leaving home and navigating the larger physical world, so if it weren't for online community, I'd have none at all. When I say this, many non-disabled people have a hard time wrapping their heads around it, because they can't quite imagine living with kind of limitation on mobility and social access, and there is definitely a cultural bias that tells us IRL face-to-face is necessary to be happy. It is not. All of the problems, or barriers to access in online community are, to be sure, a problem, just as they are in IRL communities, and there are issues that don't exist in IRL, such as the one you mentioned, in which there is a certain level of knowledge, and perhaps intimacy, that is lost due to not observing others in their day-to-day life. I don't believe, however, that those limitations preclude online communities from truly being community. Besides being disabled, I am also Autistic, and because of that, I (and many other Autistics) are actually able to communicate more easily in writing, rather than face-to-face, not to mention, the relative ease of finding other Autistics to connect with. So I am glad that you are asking the questions you are, because I think we really do need to address the pain points about how community works online, and your description of the *welts is very intriguing. Thank you for this!
This is such a valuable perspective. Thanks for sharing. You're absolutely right about all the ways in which IRL interaction can be painful or uncomfortable or sometimes outright dangerous depending on who you are, as well as being the only option for people depending on their mobility and other circumstances. Thanks for drawing attention to all the privileges that are inherent in seeing face-to-face interaction as better or purer when it's not a feasible option for everyone.
Glad you liked the -welts! Always a fun conversation in my sociological theory class to get everyone thinking about our different modes of interaction.
What an interesting essay! So many good questions, I don't know where to begin. What I won't do is write a Substack post although you've given me so much to think about.
I have a wonderful online community on WordPress where I have been blogging steadily since early 2013. They have done more to encourage my writing than any writing class I've ever taken (except one). A special few of them have even contacted me outside the platform at times when I was silent to see if I was okay. Of this group, I met one face-to-face when we traveled out west.
Also, I'm a"highly sensitive introvert." I have social needs but being around people in the flesh just wears me out too fast. Developing friendships online has fed my social needs without depleting my energy stores. Online communities have also been a comfort since my closest friends and family live thousands of miles away from me. [Why I don't have any close friends where I currently live is a long story.]
That said, it has taken me YEARS: (1) to develop a stable online community, and (2) to tread lightly when things get heated. I was very disappointed by a recent kerfuffle, announcing to my husband that it didn't take long for people to start treating Notes like Twitter. And so, while I do enjoy much of what I read on Substack, I feel safer on WordPress.
I'm so glad you've found a good online community on WordPress, Marie. That's amazing and great that they checked up on you. I feel you about the introversion. In my ideal world, I'd spend most of my day alone and then meet up with people for dinner and drinks at the end of the day. But the biggest chunk of my days would be spent by myself. And maybe a cat or two.
I also did not enjoy the recent kerfuffle on Notes and was disappointed at myself for being drawn into it. I'm curious about exactly what went wrong there, but honestly, don't want to spend any more time or energy thinking about it.
I enjoy solitude and spend most of my time “alone.” I put alone in quotes because my husband is also retired and is home more than I am, so I do have someone at hand to interact with. However, we have different hobbies (fortunately) so we can both be home yet not see each other for hours 🙂
I feel fortunate to have the online community I have, but, like I said, it took a long time to build. I don’t have those expectations with Substack in part because most writers here seem to want to make money. I don’t begrudge anyone setting up a paywall, but I’m not going to pay to have a “social” relationship with someone. I’ll pay for a writing workshop experience, but I don’t need to do that on Substack either. Hmmm ... I feel a rant coming on. I better stop here 😉
Yes, I think the desire to earn $ on Substack does get in the way. It did for me on Medium. I do understand why most writers set up paywalls and justifiably so, but I’ve run up against paywalls for things like joining a chat to talk about weaving. The writer isn’t offering to teach anything about weaving. It’s just a cozy chat, but it’s also monetizing social relationships.
I get that writers don’t want to give their words away for free. I’d love to make $ off my words but I know even I wouldn’t pay to read me.
I also know a lot of writers (many on WP) who just want to be read. So they publish their poems or other creative work on their blogs where they can be read for free. Or they get their work accepted into online journals where they also can be read for free. (I should note that many of these writers have chapbooks and novels available for sale. That’s how they really want to earn $).
Being on Substack is an interesting experience for me because of this dichotomy: a site where most writers are trying to make $ off their writing and a site where they are not. I do get a lot out of Substack as a reader--lots of good writing--but it’s on WP where I get my warm fuzzies 🙂
Now, if I lived near you, I’d say, let’s get a cuppa and talk! 😉
my “editor” is writing his dissertation in Political Science right now on the effects of “third places.” they seem so uniquely suited to building community almost without effort
I don’t really know either. But I do encounter a huge variety of ideas and personal essays here that make me think or relate in ways to strangers (like you are to me!) than I would in my local coffee shop. And I’m grateful for that. I only regret that I’ll never meet most of the people in person whom I read on here. But maybe that’s ok. It’s a different level of community for sure.
That is such a good point about the way Substack exposes us to so many perspectives. I do also believe that the people in my local coffee shop have stories and experiences and thoughts that are just as interesting as what I read on Substack, but without the time or inclination or ability to express them here. I know because every now and then, we strike up a conversation with a stranger and discover a whole world. But that's a hard thing for most of us to do, to put ourselves out there and talk to strangers, even though I think I read a study that it increases our happiness.
I experience Substack as community, but not the whole platform. Like many IRL communities, the one I perceive myself to be a part of on Substack is a carefully curated (but not exclusive) group of writers and readers who seem to organically end up gathering repeatedly in the comments for a post we've all read. I do not see Substack writ large as a community; rather, it is like an online city, where lots of people live, but who interacts with who, on a regular basis, such that they actually get to know and care about each other, is a mesh of sometimes interconnected, sometimes isolated, subgroups.
As a multiply disabled person, this kind of online community is critical to my well-being. I have great difficulty leaving home and navigating the larger physical world, so if it weren't for online community, I'd have none at all. When I say this, many non-disabled people have a hard time wrapping their heads around it, because they can't quite imagine living with kind of limitation on mobility and social access, and there is definitely a cultural bias that tells us IRL face-to-face is necessary to be happy. It is not. All of the problems, or barriers to access in online community are, to be sure, a problem, just as they are in IRL communities, and there are issues that don't exist in IRL, such as the one you mentioned, in which there is a certain level of knowledge, and perhaps intimacy, that is lost due to not observing others in their day-to-day life. I don't believe, however, that those limitations preclude online communities from truly being community. Besides being disabled, I am also Autistic, and because of that, I (and many other Autistics) are actually able to communicate more easily in writing, rather than face-to-face, not to mention, the relative ease of finding other Autistics to connect with. So I am glad that you are asking the questions you are, because I think we really do need to address the pain points about how community works online, and your description of the *welts is very intriguing. Thank you for this!
This is such a valuable perspective. Thanks for sharing. You're absolutely right about all the ways in which IRL interaction can be painful or uncomfortable or sometimes outright dangerous depending on who you are, as well as being the only option for people depending on their mobility and other circumstances. Thanks for drawing attention to all the privileges that are inherent in seeing face-to-face interaction as better or purer when it's not a feasible option for everyone.
Glad you liked the -welts! Always a fun conversation in my sociological theory class to get everyone thinking about our different modes of interaction.
There are many communities. Find yours.
Thanks, Stirling! Working on it. It's the project of a lifetime, I think.
It always is.
What an interesting essay! So many good questions, I don't know where to begin. What I won't do is write a Substack post although you've given me so much to think about.
I have a wonderful online community on WordPress where I have been blogging steadily since early 2013. They have done more to encourage my writing than any writing class I've ever taken (except one). A special few of them have even contacted me outside the platform at times when I was silent to see if I was okay. Of this group, I met one face-to-face when we traveled out west.
Also, I'm a"highly sensitive introvert." I have social needs but being around people in the flesh just wears me out too fast. Developing friendships online has fed my social needs without depleting my energy stores. Online communities have also been a comfort since my closest friends and family live thousands of miles away from me. [Why I don't have any close friends where I currently live is a long story.]
That said, it has taken me YEARS: (1) to develop a stable online community, and (2) to tread lightly when things get heated. I was very disappointed by a recent kerfuffle, announcing to my husband that it didn't take long for people to start treating Notes like Twitter. And so, while I do enjoy much of what I read on Substack, I feel safer on WordPress.
I'm so glad you've found a good online community on WordPress, Marie. That's amazing and great that they checked up on you. I feel you about the introversion. In my ideal world, I'd spend most of my day alone and then meet up with people for dinner and drinks at the end of the day. But the biggest chunk of my days would be spent by myself. And maybe a cat or two.
I also did not enjoy the recent kerfuffle on Notes and was disappointed at myself for being drawn into it. I'm curious about exactly what went wrong there, but honestly, don't want to spend any more time or energy thinking about it.
I enjoy solitude and spend most of my time “alone.” I put alone in quotes because my husband is also retired and is home more than I am, so I do have someone at hand to interact with. However, we have different hobbies (fortunately) so we can both be home yet not see each other for hours 🙂
I feel fortunate to have the online community I have, but, like I said, it took a long time to build. I don’t have those expectations with Substack in part because most writers here seem to want to make money. I don’t begrudge anyone setting up a paywall, but I’m not going to pay to have a “social” relationship with someone. I’ll pay for a writing workshop experience, but I don’t need to do that on Substack either. Hmmm ... I feel a rant coming on. I better stop here 😉
I do wonder if it's the economic aspect of Substack that maybe gets in the way of community.
It's good to be alone together in the house with your person. And to have different hobbies.
Yes, I think the desire to earn $ on Substack does get in the way. It did for me on Medium. I do understand why most writers set up paywalls and justifiably so, but I’ve run up against paywalls for things like joining a chat to talk about weaving. The writer isn’t offering to teach anything about weaving. It’s just a cozy chat, but it’s also monetizing social relationships.
I get that writers don’t want to give their words away for free. I’d love to make $ off my words but I know even I wouldn’t pay to read me.
I also know a lot of writers (many on WP) who just want to be read. So they publish their poems or other creative work on their blogs where they can be read for free. Or they get their work accepted into online journals where they also can be read for free. (I should note that many of these writers have chapbooks and novels available for sale. That’s how they really want to earn $).
Being on Substack is an interesting experience for me because of this dichotomy: a site where most writers are trying to make $ off their writing and a site where they are not. I do get a lot out of Substack as a reader--lots of good writing--but it’s on WP where I get my warm fuzzies 🙂
Now, if I lived near you, I’d say, let’s get a cuppa and talk! 😉
my “editor” is writing his dissertation in Political Science right now on the effects of “third places.” they seem so uniquely suited to building community almost without effort
Oh, that is very cool. Third places like bars and pubs and cafes and coffee shops? I read a lot of that research as part of my dissertation, too. I had an amazing third place in my town for a long time and then it closed and I still miss it. I wrote about it here: https://www.you-think-too-much.com/madison-monday/madison-monday-the-605-grille-and-the-great-good-place/
yes exactly! or even public libraries, parks, etc... basically not home or work haha
love hearing about other’s third places because they’re often the nearest and dearest to our hearts
They are. They're priceless. Still missing my third space and it's been 6 years.